Reactions to the List: 10-1

[Cap]

I think by this point we aren't learning much more about the "bias" of the list. At some point someone will finish number 1. If that is an American it doesn't necessarily mean there is an American bias. If that is a Japanese wrestler it doesn't mean there is a Japanese bias. Bias isn't going to be in the micro level (which is where we are now), it will be seen in the larger patterns that we have already seen or will maybe flesh out more from the data we already know about.

[Loss]

Terry Funk is a true multinational. He probably lobbied Congress to pass favorable free trade deals.

[Exposer]

Rey beating Kawada & Kobashi is awesome.

[pol]

I think by this point we aren't learning much more about the "bias" of the list. At some point someone will finish number 1. If that is an American it doesn't necessarily mean there is an American bias. If that is a Japanese wrestler it doesn't mean there is a Japanese bias. Bias isn't going to be in the micro level (which is where we are now), it will be seen in the larger patterns that we have already seen or will maybe flesh out more from the data we already know about.

 

Yeah, there's far too much trying to support or debunk various theses by pointing to individual placements going on.

[anarchistxx]

21 people not voting for Kawada at all is pretty mindblowing. He has at the very least three candidates for the best match of all time and he was a pivotal part of all of those matches. Not as if he fell off a cliff either, he had some very solid work from 2000-2006, albeit at a time when most fans had given up on All Japan.

 

Would love to hear explanations from those who left him off their lists.

[Timbo Slice]

With Kobashi over Kawada, The List truly being booked like Baba circa 1995. Misawa the one true ace.

 

Lawler should have been Top 5. Flair was my #1 coming in and he dethroned him. Memphis haters couldn't keep him out of the Top 10, though, so at least we have that.

[Timbo Slice]

21 people not voting for Kawada at all is pretty mindblowing. He has at the very least three candidates for the best match of all time and he was a pivotal part of all of those matches. Not as if he fell off a cliff either, he had some very solid work from 2000-2006, albeit at a time when most fans had given up on All Japan.

 

Would love to hear explanations from those who left him off their lists.

Didn't show enough fighting spirit.

[El Dragon]

Kinda stunned Mysterio and Bryan both made the top 7. I'll go ahead and be blunt and say they are the top 2 on my list, but my expectation was "Maybe it puts them into the top 10 if things break right" not "Maybe top 5?"

[anarchistxx]

Kinda stunned Mysterio and Bryan both made the top 7. I'll go ahead and be blunt and say they are the top 2 on my list, but my expectation was "Maybe it puts them into the top 10 if things break right" not "Maybe top 5?"

 

Irony of Danielson beating out the four pillars is that he made his name working a style and promotion that completely fetishized the style they invented. Arguable that ROH never even exists in the form it did without 90s AJPW, the debt is clear in almost all the big matches.

[Cap]

Rey finally dropping at 7 has got to be the biggest surprise for me. I really like Rey. I get that he was a truly special babyface, but I would have never guessed him at 7.

[Beast]

Will Liger end up beating Misawa to be the top Japanese wrestler?

 

The three big names ended up in reverse order this time.

 

And the only guy making the top 6 again from ten years ago is Liger.

[cubbymark]

As disappointed as I was that Casas finished as low as he did, I am tickled to death that Misterio beat out Kawada and Kobashi on this list.

[Cap]

I won't be surprised. Kobashi and Kawada made fewer ballots than Rey. Based on the voting so far I would imagine Liger made more ballots than Misawa. He has a sort of mythos that even folks who might have voted more strictly American wrestlers would probably find a place for them on his list. Misawa like got more top 5 votes so it is tough to tell.

[El-P]

I'm very surprised about Misawa being above Kawada and Kobashi, for reasons I'll explain later. Since many people love Kobashi's NOH work, I really expected him to make the top 5.

 

Rey beating both of them simply confirms, again, what I've been saying all along. I had Rey at #18 because, as much as I don't care for 00's WWE style and that damn 619, there was no denying Rey Jr. level of work over the last 20 years.

[El-P]

I may be a simpleton but with Funk, Danielson, Rey, Hansen, and Flair left in the top 10, that leaves Liger, Misawa, Kobashi as the only Japanese guys left. Not seeing the Japanese bias. I also don't buy Funk's case being made in Japan. Maybe Hansen.

 

I totally buy Funk's case, at least half of it, being made in Japan. Hansen is obviously a Japan candidate.

 

Still, I agree with you, obviously, the only japanese guys left there are total sacred cows. They weren't going anywhere.

[Death From Above]

I can't find the thread where people were doing it before, but since at this point there's no harm (or any particular mystery) to me saying Misawa was my #1, if I had a Survivor Series team of guys I was high vote on it was Rusev, Chavo Sr., Bobby Eaton, and Misawa.

 

That's one weird team but I'm kind of pleased with it because it does encompass so many different places and times that I enjoyed.

[Beast]

So the top 5 is completely different the 2006 top 5.

[MFoy]

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

[Grimmas]

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

It shouldn't be, he's had a long and awesome career.

[MFoy]

 

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

It shouldn't be, he's had a long and awesome career.

 

You're preaching to the choir there. But he's the only guy in the top 5 who hasn't been discussed at that level for decades, so it's an extra big honor, I think.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

 

 

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

 

This is going to sound like I'm trolling, but I'm not. I'm genuinely curious: Do we think Bryan's retirement played a big role in moving him up on some lists? We see the same thing happen when musicians die. Artists like Prince and Michael Jackson are very popular, but they reach a whole new level of popularity in the months after they pass.

 

Thankfully, Bryan is still with us, but I wonder if his retirement had a similar effect.

[El-P]

 

Is Bryan in the top 5 considered a big shocker?

It shouldn't be, he's had a long and awesome career.

 

Recency bias + US mainstream bias (and before people get worked up, I of all people am guilty of it with Bryan, so I speak for *myself* first). I absolutely don't believe all the people voting for Bryan had scrutinized his ROH career. I for one sure didn't do it, as ROH is a black hole that I'm not I ever want to get into. Too afraid I might just blast the whole company (for the record, I *hated* everything about Samoa Joe vs Kobashi, to give you an idea). Maybe one day. When I'm done with TNA.

[Cap]

I don't think Bryan in the top 5 is a surprise at all. He is a transcendent talent that appeals across fan bases (at least ones that would vote here) like few others, his career is readily available and many people followed it as it unfolded (nothing to really go back for to make a strong case), and has been highly regarded and praised in all the right places (well deserved I might add).

[El-P]

Do we think Bryan's retirement played a big role in moving him up on some lists?

 

Of course it did. If Bryan had landed around the top 20, I would have say no. But really, beating Kawada, Kobashi, Liger, three of the biggest sacred cows of the last 20 years. Yeah, for sure. I actually plan on diving into Daniel Bryan's whole career at some point. Maybe he's that great. Maybe not.

[fxnj]

Bryan benefits a lot from no one really going back and looking at his Indy work with a critical eye. During the last few years of his run, I noticed the Wrestling KO guys were pointing out the holes in his work and how he often gave in to the worst tendencies of his opponents when against a Davey Richards or Naruki Doi. Most voters, though, just seem to assume he was having classic after classic.