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Grimmas

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Hope people caught the Dorada/Mephisto match. Really strong tercera. Exciting stuff. The only problem is that so much of Dorada's offense involves elaborate set ups which doesn't always work well with the sort of selling they try to do in a title match tercera (I hate the no sell corner clothesline spot but that's not going away so I'll get over it). Some crazy spots/bumps (including Mephisto BOUNCING after a top rope rana and some nutty stuff using the apron) with real escalation. People should check it out.

 

EDIT: yeah, what Quentin said

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Just watched Rey Cometa vs. Cavernario and had some issues too. I didn't mind Cavernario being in charge so much, that seemed sensible all things considered, but when he was all over Cometa it all felt a little too controlled and not wild enough for Cavernario. Also Cometa didn't really come across that sympathetic, it seemed like there was more of a focus on cramming moves in rather than selling and general body language and storytelling and all that stuff. Saying that, the dives were great and it was a fun 10 minute TV match.

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I'm generally more forgiving with lightning matches, I'll admit. It's an expectation thing.

 

Here's last night's show. I didn't catch most of it so I can't speak to the quality of most of the card, but I did see the end and the main event is well worth watching. It starts at 1:51:45 or so.

 

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I'm generally more forgiving with lightning matches, I'll admit. It's an expectation thing.

 

I like lightning matches in principle - I have little time and a poor attention span. But in practice they often seem a bit disappointing. However, I think I just need to manage my expectations better. They are fun for what they are.

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The issue I find with lightning matches is that my expectations with Lucha are all about shifts, long periods of matwork drawing each other out or wild brawls with guys on top for a multitude of time leading to a big comeback and the match going from there. Also, the traditional CMLL matches have had such quick first and second caidas where I feel at times the finishes of those falls are "survivor series" type finishes. What I mean by that is that individuals are getting pinned on maneuvers they wouldn't necessarily ever get pinned by, they only are pinned this time because it is in the first and second fall. That can become frustrating for me in an lightning match to change my expectations. When Cometa hit his big dive in this match and they went to the wide shot of the clock, I was amazed at how much they have done in five minutes and it took me out of the match a bit within the whole context of CMLL.

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Lightning matches aren't my favorite thing in the world either, certainly. I have less of a problem with the hierarchy of what will finish a match, though, just in general. You can rationalize it a lot of ways, but I generally see lucha as symbolic and what matters more in any moment is whether or not a trios team, for instance, has the momentum, the mandate of heaven, really. Pretty much anything can finish a lightning match at any time and we're lucky in a lot of ways that mostly anything could end mostly any fall in a title match. The doubt is at least there.

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LA Park, La Parka, & EL Hijo del LA Park vs Rush, Pierroth, & Toscano (Lucha Elite, 4/27/2016)

 

Yeah, you are nuts Grimmas, ha. This had incredible heat and did made me for sure want to see Rush vs. LA Park in a singles, wild brawl but it also struggled when it wasn't those guys. Plus, while Park still has incredible charisma he is closer to LA Porky at this point and really moving slower. I hope they do the big match before he deteriorates even more. I did enjoy the little nino nearly crying as Park was getting beat up. Finish was fine but once again felt like a tecnico earning a victory that wasn't really earned. I would probably go around **3/4 for this one.

 

When the Park family made their appearance on the stage, it reminded me of an NES Ice Hockey team lineup.

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I didn't dig into the matches yet, but here's EricR's defense of Pierroth: http://segundacaida.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/on-liking-comandante-pierroth.html

 

I agree that bad-faith nonsense is uncalled for. Much more interesting (and less toxic) to discuss the substance of someone's argument than question their motives.

 

Ah thanks for posting it! It took awhile to write and was maybe not necessary, but it was fun to go back and revisit the history of my opinions.

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Now that we're past the live streaming for the Friday-Thursday period, let me steal some upcoming lineups from cubsfan:

 

So the Friday Clarosports show is:

 

 

CMLL (FRI) 05/06/2016 Arena México
1) Hombre Bala Jr. & Súper Halcón Jr. vs Espanto Jr. & Hijo del Signo
2) Blue Panther Jr., Pegasso, The Panther vs Fujin, Raijin, Skándalo
3) Ángel de Oro, Fuego, Súper Porky vs Bobby Z, Hechicero, Vangellys
4) Titán vs Rey Bucanero [lightning]
5) Rey Cometa, Valiente, Volador Jr. vs Cavernario, Felino, Negro Casas
6) La Máscara, Rey Escorpión, Rush vs Marco Corleone, Terrible, Último Guerrero [Relevos Increíbles]

 

 

That's a pretty fun card actually. Panthers vs Fujin/Raijin would be fun, but more fun if Skandalo wasn't there to hit people in the groin a lot (and not in the great Fuerza way). Who's going to be matched up against Porky in the tercera? Vangellys? I kind of want to see that regardless. I'm higher than anyone else in the world on Bucanero in general, but he can go in a lightning match against someone like Titan. Second to top has more Cometa vs Cavernario and Casas to boot. And then the main has a lot of good wrestlers and Mascara, so there should be a fun beatdown in there at least.

 

Next Monday's show live on youtube:

 

 

CMLL (MON) 05/09/2016 Arena Puebla
1) París & Robin vs Fuerza Chicana & King Jaguar
2) Millenium & Rey Samuray vs Arkángel de la Muerte & Nitro
3) Hombre Bala Jr., Magnus, Súper Halcón Jr. vs Virus, Warrior Steel, Yago
4) Dalys © vs Estrellita [CMLL WOMEN]
5) Ángel de Oro, Stigma, Stuka Jr. vs Ephesto, Luciferno, Mephisto
6) La Máscara, Rush, Shocker vs Marco Corleone, Máximo Sexy, Negro Casas [Relevos Increíbles]

 

 

No follow up to Cavernario/Terrible, which makes me sad. No Toro Bill Jr./Rey Apocolipsis either. I thought Dalys and Estrellita did pretty well in the lightning match, so we'll see how they do for a title match. I love the rudos trio of Virus, Warrior Steel, and Yago already. Shocker (finally back) is a very weird fit in that main event, but I really like Marco/Maximo/Casas as a team too.

 

And Tuesday live on youtube:

 

 

CMLL (TUE) 05/10/2016 Arena México
1) Astral & Fantasy vs Pequeño Olímpico & Pierrothito
2) Leono, Sensei, Star Jr. vs Cancerbero, Raziel, Sangre Azteca
3) Fuego vs Disturbio [lightning]
4) Blue Panther Jr., Pegasso, The Panther vs Fujin, Okumura, Raijin
5) Ángel de Oro, Súper Porky, Tritón vs Hechicero, Kráneo, Sagrado
6) Marco Corleone, Máximo Sexy, Stuka Jr. vs Niebla Roja, Último Guerrero, Vangellys

 

 

My initial takeaway is that the show the same night in Guadalajara has Rush vs Terrible and a BP, Titan, Cometa vs Cavernario, Puma, Tiger match, so we're getting screwed here, but it has the better looking Panthers vs Fujin/Raijin match, a decent enough lightning match, and Hechicero (YMMV on Porky vs Kraneo, of course) so it's not all bad. Nothing jumps out like last night's title match though. That's for sure.

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LA Park, La Parka, & EL Hijo del LA Park vs Rush, Pierroth, & Toscano (Lucha Elite, 4/27/2016)

 

Yeah, you are nuts Grimmas, ha. This had incredible heat and did made me for sure want to see Rush vs. LA Park in a singles, wild brawl but it also struggled when it wasn't those guys. Plus, while Park still has incredible charisma he is closer to LA Porky at this point and really moving slower. I hope they do the big match before he deteriorates even more. I did enjoy the little nino nearly crying as Park was getting beat up. Finish was fine but once again felt like a tecnico earning a victory that wasn't really earned. I would probably go around **3/4 for this one.

 

I'm going to have to agree with Soup. The extra four guys in this left zero impression as Rush and LA Park take 95% the spotlight. This was my first time seeing any of the incidental guys and boy are they not super great. Pierroth looks like Hercules Hernadez reborn as the Super Invader, El Hijo looks like his dad eats all of his meals, Super Parka looked like he was made of wood and I'm not sure Toscano actually was there or if he was a hologram. I think you could sell me on an all out Rush vs. Park match but I have to agree Park looks bloated and unhealthy.

 

I watched Rey Cometa vs. Cavernario as well and I liked Caveman in it but felt no connection to Cometa beyond thinking he was okay at best. Cavernario felt heavier here than I was used to seeing him which I think helped him make his bumps and offense look better. His backdrop on the floor was devastating and awesome. I would have liked more like his STF followed by a punch to the face to mean more than it did which was nothing as I though that would be a major spot in another time and place. The finish was executed okay but went over like a lead balloon. Cometa just didn't have the buy in of the crowd that he needed to pull it off.

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It doesn't help that Cometa isn't all that charismatic, but Arena Mexico on Friday nights is a HEAVILY rudo-friendly crowd anyway. It's a tough proposition for any tecnico there. Like, even Mascara Dorada gets booed out of the building.

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Memphisto vs. Mascara Dorada was really enjoyable. First two falls set the table and stretched out a tiny bit to really contrast the craziness of the final fall. Dorada took some amazing chances and Memphesto was right there to capitalize when a mistake is made. The final pinfalls were really dramatic and the match ended on a great battle on the top rope where you really feel like each guy is one final blow away from victory. ***1/4

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LA Park, La Parka, & EL Hijo del LA Park vs Rush, Pierroth, & Toscano (Lucha Elite, 4/27/2016)

 

 

I was so stoked for this. Things started off pretty hot with all 6 brawling on the ramp and around ringside with quick, heated action. A decent, quick first fall. Unfortunately things really fell apart from there. I had no idea Park ballooned so much and aside from a tope where he somehow managed to lose his feet, he really couldn't do anything in the ring. Which meant the match was really running on his and Rush's charisma, as the other 4 can't exactly go either. When focused on Rush doing Rush things or Park not looking ready to die this wasn't bad, but on the whole it was incredibly disappointing.

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Cubsfan just uploaded Casas vs Hechicero

 

https://youtu.be/VOe3N0M0U14

 

EDIT: Just finished the match. Well worth the wait and absolutely lived to my expectations. Really good stuff.

Just watched this match and boy it was good. I really dug the matwork in the opening caida. I'm in the minority here on this board because I don't love maestros grappling and hold trading but this stuff was really good. It didn't feel like an exhibition which some of indy maestro style matches sometimes develop into. It like an actual competition and these two wanted to win badly.

 

I almost wish the match went longer. That's how good it was. Wouldn't mind if we got a rematch.

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I'm going to echo the love for Casas/Hechicero. It's still amazing that Negro Casas can still put out these amazing performances in his mid-50s. His mat work was real good and he held his own with Hechicero, pulling off some neat holds and a gorgeous sharpshooter to win the second fall. He got some great elevation and impact with his silla to the floor in the 3rd fall. He took some pretty sick powerslams, and man alive, Casas has balls for taking that musclebuster towards the end of the match.

 

Edit: Matt, what you could do is to bring your smartphone and take an extended "bathroom break" as the Clio with postmatch interviews runs 20 minutes.

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You can watch a year's worth of Casas matches and never see him do that on the mat too. Some of the ways he reacted to Hechicero's twisty turny-submissions, both in getting out and selling, and trying to struggle against elements of them was as good, logical, and novel as anyone I've ever seen against Hech.

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Matt, that reminds me. A very subtle point that the commentators did make was that Casas wasn't quite able to get Hechicero in the Casita because they felt Casas got a cramp in his leg, and Casas shakes it enough that you could tell Hechicero's mat work had taken its toll on our hero.

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Trying to dip my toes into Lucha some more this year, and I gotta say that I really enjoyed Hechicero vs. Casas. I especially thought the leg cramp spot toward the finish was really cool and well done. For someone his age, Casas looks to be in tremendous shape.

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