Current Joshi Talk

[donsem43]

Bushiroad probably had the money when they thought they were getting Mandy Rose, but then they found out it was Naomi and suddenly they need to keep costs down.

Honestly, go count how many dark skinned women Stardom has booked over the years then compare that to the number of blonde white women. Since the news broke that Mercedes was signing with Bushiroad, Stardom has brought in three white women, two of them blonde.

[Mr JMML]

On 4/23/2023 at 5:38 AM, donsem43 said:

Bushiroad probably had the money when they thought they were getting Mandy Rose, but then they found out it was Naomi and suddenly they need to keep costs down.

Honestly, go count how many dark skinned women Stardom has booked over the years then compare that to the number of blonde white women. Since the news broke that Mercedes was signing with Bushiroad, Stardom has brought in three white women, two of them blonde.

This is a hard accusation, maybe you're right but there's no real proof so I think it's too early to draw conclusions like this. 

[sek69]

Honestly considering how Japan is culturally, it's not as wild an accusation as you might think. It's not like racism as in they dislike black people, but it's more like they see them as a curiosity which in a way is kinda worse. Like how Bob Sapp was a big star there just because he was a big black man in a country where that was pretty rare to see. 

[NintendoLogic]

I remember reading once that AJW gave Aja Kong a monster gimmick because they didn't think someone who was half-black could be a teen idol, to say nothing of naming her after a famous giant ape.

[donsem43]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, Mr JMML said:

This is a hard accusation, maybe you're right but there's no real proof so I think it's too early to draw conclusions like this. 

I'm not accusing Rossy and/or Bushiroad of blatant racism. The point I was trying to make is that it's funny to me that you're running a show at one of the biggest areas in Japan, which can't be cheap, that you justify not booking a wrestler because you need to keep costs down. It also just a coincidence that said wrestler doesn't look like a lot of the foreign wrestlers that the company books.

I don't know, operating for 12+ years (2.5 under Bushiroad ownership) and booking 40ish (a very rough estimate) foreign wrestlers is "too early to draw conclusions" then when is? 35 years and 120 wrestlers?

[Kadaveri]

Well the news that Naomi/Trinity has signed with Impact means her asking price surely wasn't all that high.

[Noah's_Savior]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:34 AM, sek69 said:

So it looks like they really wanted to sign Trinity Fatu but they are under pressure from Bushiroad to keep the costs down. I suppose she wasn't just there to cheer on her BFF at the Tokyo Dome after all. 

I also wonder if they are being told to keep the costs down also partly due to how women's wrestling is viewed in Japan. It's cool that they got to do matches on New Japan shows, but you can tell the crowds are still getting used to women and men's matches on the same show.  It does seem like Mercedes helped bump up the NJPW World subs a bit, so that's why I assume they're going to do what they can to keep her around. It would be something if she ends up being involved in improving the standing of women's wrestling in two different countries. 

It's kind of wild living in a time where NJPW, AJPW, and NOAH are having honest exhibition matches with top joshi wrestlers and continue to show support for it. Hell, Muto said at his retirement show that joshi wrestling is a strength Japanese wrestling has against the rest of the wrestling world. I'm interested to see if or how the exhibition matches on major men's shows can actually lead to new fans for the joshi promotions.

[donsem43]

Going to post some links to non-Stardom stuff that people need to check out. A lot of joshi promotions have been posting relatively recent stuff on the their YouTube channels sporadically. 

Takumi Iroha vs. Itsuki Aoki - Marvelous - 08/08/2022

Stardom fans pushed the idea that Mina Shirakawa was the most improved wrestler in the world, personally think she wasn't in the top 3 in joshi. In fact, Itsuki Aoki lapped her pretty easily as she went from being someone who I wasn't sure if she was suppose to be a comedy wrestler or not, to coming off as a legitimate title challenger in a main event as she was here. Of course, it helps that she maxed out the level of stiffness for her strikes but she as managed to harness her natural charisma to carry herself in such a way that she comes off as a big time threat. Someone to keep an eye on for sure even if she's hard to track because she bounces between so many promotions.

Hanako Nakamori vs. Hikari Shimizu - WAVE - 05/29/2022

I've been a big Shimizu fan for a while and was a bit disappointed that she didn't get a profile boost after a strong performance against AZM in their High Speed title match at the last Stardom Sumo Hall show. She has the potential to be a KAIRI type of star who can draw fans into matches through her personality. Most Nakamori performances are forgettable but every once in a while you'll get a top tier performance like the one here. 

[kas]

2nd the Takumi vs Aoki recommendation, really great match. Aoki stepped up big time and Takumi sold and bumped big for her.

[jushin muta liger]

On 4/25/2023 at 11:33 PM, donsem43 said:

I'm not accusing Rossy and/or Bushiroad of blatant racism. The point I was trying to make is that it's funny to me that you're running a show at one of the biggest areas in Japan, which can't be cheap, that you justify not booking a wrestler because you need to keep costs down. It also just a coincidence that said wrestler doesn't look like a lot of the foreign wrestlers that the company books.

I don't know, operating for 12+ years (2.5 under Bushiroad ownership) and booking 40ish (a very rough estimate) foreign wrestlers is "too early to draw conclusions" then when is? 35 years and 120 wrestlers?

 

Also there is the story from Kiera Hogan about not getting into Japan after a tryout cause the owner said he would rather have a white woman. Most ppl think it was Rossy. I don't know for sure if it was him but there's only a number of promotions at the time that was bringing foreigners over. 

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/kiera-hogan-says-race-cost-her-opportunity-japan

[jushin muta liger]

On 4/27/2023 at 2:34 AM, Noah's_Savior said:

It's kind of wild living in a time where NJPW, AJPW, and NOAH are having honest exhibition matches with top joshi wrestlers and continue to show support for it. Hell, Muto said at his retirement show that joshi wrestling is a strength Japanese wrestling has against the rest of the wrestling world. I'm interested to see if or how the exhibition matches on major men's shows can actually lead to new fans for the joshi promotions.

I would welcome Muto leading a joshi promotion under the CyberAgent/Cyberfight umbrella if they want to compete with Stardom. I personally like Stardom but there's more than enough freelancers out in the market to go full time for a CyberAgent promotion. TJPW wants to compete but they keep losing wrestlers and their wrestling isn't going for the same audience as Stardom has. Same with Ganbare Pro. A legit number two joshi promotion with real financial backing would boost the scene.

[Ma Stump Puller]

I'd rather not see Muto book another promotion to death thanks

Do agree that a big #2 Joshi promotion can and absolutely should be operational; the audience and wrestlers are all there for it. Even if it's a GLEAT situation where it's a small core filled with different rotating talent, that has been shown to be wildly successful in the right hands

 

 

[Mr JMML]

 I really liked Mio Momono vs Chikayo Nagashima from Marvelous 5/3/2023, it's the joshi MOTY for me so far.

[Mr JMML]

Here's a link for the entire show: https://vk.com/search?c[per_page]=40&c[q]=marvelous 2023&c[section]=video&c[sort]=2&z=video-4499945_456250821 . 

[donsem43]

Recommend checking out the Generation Struggle 8-Woman tag main event from today's (June 4) Stardom show. More for being a breath of fresh air after years of stilted unit based tags and just the flat out weirdness of the booking for the last couple of months. Highlights being the Giulia/Utami Hayashishita, Syuri/Suzu Suzuki, and just Maika's overall performance. Hopefully there is more stuff like this in the near future but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it.

[donsem43]

Decided to take a flyer on this year's TJPW Princess Cup tournament and ended up being pleasantly surprised by the in-ring quality. It says something when a Mizuki/Miyu Yamashita match ends up being the least match in the first round that doesn't involve a comedy worker. The best match so far was the Shoko Nakajima/Suzume on the 7/16 show. Nakajima runs hot/cold for me but she's been absolutely tremendous both here and her second round match versus Rika Tatsumi. Meanwhile, Suzume is the most underrated wrestler in joshi. It amazes me how western joshi fandom fails to know she exists. She's really become a workhorse for TJPW and is starting to come off as a legit star when she's in higher profile matches.

Even the matches that I would typically pass over without an honest look have been surprisingly quality stuff. Yuki Kamifuku/Nao Kakuta on the 7/17 show legit shocked me by being pretty good. Kakuta is the definition of average while Kamifuku has been terrible since the end of her International title run but they both put it together here. Kamifuku even managed to hang with Miu Watanabe in her quarter-final match. So, overall, if you have Wrestle Universe these show are worth checking out even if the TJPW presentation puts you off.

[donsem43]

Stardom had Kairi for a little more than a year and they didn't use her to put over any of their existing stars. It's astounding that they didn't decide to have Kamitani beat her last fall much less having her draw with Utami Hayashishita.

Anyway, I hope Kairi got a nice, hefty pay raise for going back to WWE.

[WingedEagle]

Strong recommendation for AZM vs. Mirai from Stardom's 8/5 show.  Probably the best match in the 5*GP so far other than Syuri vs. Suzu Suzuki from opening night.

[donsem43]

"...what I told you is true, from a certain point of view." Obi-Wan Kenobi

Surprised Asuka has gone this long without publicly popping off. Given how her career in Japan went there had to be times when being lumped in with the rest of joshi wrestling touched a raw nerve.

[SirEdger]

I guess there's more than meets the eye with KAIRI's decision to return to WWE then.

[donsem43]

A lot of what Asuka is going off on happened before Kairi even had her very first match.

[WingedEagle]

Very pleasantly surprised that Stardom strapped the rocket to Suzu Suzuki so quickly.  Between her age and recently jumping to the promotion I expected a much slower push but this is great and seems very smart.  Now if they could just get serious about pushing AZM who is the same age.

[donsem43]

I imagine there will be an announcement soon that she's officially a member of the Stardom roster. Rossy has stated before that he gives new wrestlers a six month probationary-like period before they sign. I'm sure the recent run of injuries, (Saya Kamitani's dislocated elbow, Utami Hayashishita's cervical hernia and now Starlight Kid's injured ankle) played a part in the decision. Stardom does have a ridiculous amount of optionality with its roster right now so it would be hard to argue with them going with most anyone on the roster.

[donsem43]

Something that might be interesting to people on this board, even if you don't follow current joshi. Arsion will make it's return for one show to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the promotion with various alumni making appearances if not working a match.

[Ma Stump Puller]

I'm fine with this and the inevitably disappointing result of trying to work that kind of style with today's talent if it means we get a mini Hiromi Yagi comeback match alongside it