BBscout Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Hogan vs Rock is everything people shit on today's wrestling for. Its a total performance and not about competition. The guy could barely move. Austin vs Rock from 17 takes it for me with Hogan vs Warrior in 2nd. Mega star vs mega star at their peaks on the biggest stage fighting for the biggest prize = greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Hogan was literally more mobile in Rock/Hogan than he had been in probably 5 years. What do you mean he could barely move? Wrestling today isn't about theatrical performance, it's about seeing how many moves and kick outs you can do to get a holy shit or this is awesome chant. There is nothing that wrestling today that is even close to Hogan/Rock at 18. Even when Cena and Rock tried to recreate the dynamic, it just turned into a bunch of finisher spam and kick outs and basically ignoring the crowd for large chunks of time to get their shit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBscout Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Picture Charles Barkley at 50 guarding Kobe Bryant at 30. I love that match for everything it was but I need some sense of real competition to call something the greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Picture Charles Barkley at 50 guarding Kobe Bryant at 30. I love that match for everything it was but I need some sense of real competition to call something the greatest. Picture a real sport and a fake sport. And then picture that Hogan was actually more jacked than Rock in 2002. And that Hogan more than held his own in that match. It's like watching John Wick 2 and saying you can't believe that 50 year old Keanu is beating the shit out of all these 25 year old guys, so the movie ain't shit. Wrestling isn't about ages, it's about appearance and performance, which is why guys deep into their 40s can still be jacked to the tits and look completely credible against guys half their age and make money. In that particular match (and I'd argue every match he had for the next year and a half or so), Hulk wrestled like a guy 10+ years younger than he was. And that's what is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Grizzled veteran turns back time is a common trope even in legitimate sports. George Foreman's comeback especially comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I have to agree with stro (and those of a similar opinion). Hogan was certainly unoffensive in the match. Sure there were a few spots where his lack of mobility was obvious, but for the most part he did exactly what he needed to do for the match and those fans. Plus, it isn't like he went over. Everything Hogan could give still wasn't enough to pin The Rock. I am not really a huge fan of either guy, but this match was spot on for what they needed to do. Like I said, it doesn't crack my top 10, but it makes sense to me as a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 With regard to some of the early WM's I thought some of the tag team matches were the best shows of the card. For example, I have a real fondness for the opening match of III, Martel/Zenk vs. Orton/Muraco. The tag team title match from the first one is great too. For all-time great though I'd have to go with Hart/Austin. That was the real passing of the torch to Austin, any lingering doubt there may have been that he could be the next guy must have gone away that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBscout Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 The stuff I like the most is matches with guys in their perceived primes, like a Lesnar-Cena or Shawn-Bret. Matches when the guys are at their bests and close in physical and athletic ability. I love the Hogan-Rock match but its not that type, and to call something the greatest, I need that element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith_7 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 My personal favourite will always be Flair/Savage from WM8, can't believe it hasn't been mentioned even once! The match was great, had blood, Perfect played his role to perfection and Heenan and Monsoon on commentary are equally as great as they were 2 months earlier at the 92 Rumble! Also Warrior/Savage from WM7 Man I just fucking love Randy Savage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Bret/Austin, Austin/Rock WM17, HBK/Taker (either), HBK/Angle, Bryan/HHH, and Savage/Steamboat are all close for me. I don't see any way that Bret/Austin doesn't get the most votes because it's a rare combination of great in-ring quality and huge historical significance. As for worst, Lawler/Cole in a landslide. It just...kept...going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 My personal favourite will always be Flair/Savage from WM8, can't believe it hasn't been mentioned even once! The match was great, had blood, Perfect played his role to perfection and Heenan and Monsoon on commentary are equally as great as they were 2 months earlier at the 92 Rumble! Also Warrior/Savage from WM7 Man I just fucking love Randy Savage! I was actually going to mention Flair/Savage. It is one that I have really fond memories of, but it didn't hold up quite as well for my tastes last time I watched it. Still, I sort of missed it when I made my working top 10. It might actually sneak into #9 or #10 for me. It really was a great overall product. The sum was greater than the parts, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy hats Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 The stuff I like the most is matches with guys in their perceived primes, like a Lesnar-Cena or Shawn-Bret. Matches when the guys are at their bests and close in physical and athletic ability. Brock had diverticulitis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I wouldn't even put the WM8 as the best Flair/Macho match, let alone a top WM match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 1980's - Savage/Steamboat 1990's - Austin/Hart 2000's - Michaels/Taker 2010's - The Daniel Bryan Show I might be able to go with Hogan/Rock for 00's if I watched it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I wouldn't even put the WM8 as the best Flair/Macho match, let alone a top WM match. They had a much better match 3 years later in WCW at the Great American Bash. Savage in '92 was not at his best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Just rewatched Hogan/Rock and it is pretty great. I don't think it cracks my top 10, but it is close just based on the drama they are able to create, harnessing the energy from the crowd. That really was a special match in a lot of ways and one of my favorite Rock performances. I agree. Big, dramatic, clash of the titans style match with a superb crowd. I usually dislike Hogan but he was pretty good here and the Rock gave an excellent performance. They adapted pretty expertly (almost shockingly so) to the crowd flipping the face-heel dynamic. I don't think they were really adapting. It was pretty clear fans were going to pick Hogan over Rock during that match, and Rock's promo earlier in the event was a heel promo at Hulk and his fans. The match was certainly laid out in a way that they were expecting the fans to be cheering for Hogan over Rock. IIRC, Hogan has mentioned that they actually flew him home the day before WM or at least after he'd already gotten to Toronto just to get the red and yellow gear for the match based on the reactions that week at Axxess, but then when he got back they decided to stick with the NWO stuff anyway. So there isn't a lot of doubt they knew exactly what was going to happen during the match, it was just how much it was going to play into it which ended up being pretty much the whole way. The only thing keeping Rock from full heel was not cheating to win or mocking Hogan when he did it, which was fine since he wasn't turning heel. Then they didn't crap on the Rock when he made the save and posed with Hogan which was respectful and showed it was more about loving Hulk, then hating Rock or trying to get themselves over like nowadays has turned into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 I wouldn't even put the WM8 as the best Flair/Macho match, let alone a top WM match. They had a much better match 3 years later in WCW at the Great American Bash. Savage in '92 was not at his best. Ohh yeah, clearly this wasn't their best match and I am still not sure we ever saw the match they were capable of, but I think that match is still worth a mention. Still it is pretty easily - at best - Savage's third best Mania match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Just rewatched Hogan/Rock and it is pretty great. I don't think it cracks my top 10, but it is close just based on the drama they are able to create, harnessing the energy from the crowd. That really was a special match in a lot of ways and one of my favorite Rock performances. I agree. Big, dramatic, clash of the titans style match with a superb crowd. I usually dislike Hogan but he was pretty good here and the Rock gave an excellent performance. They adapted pretty expertly (almost shockingly so) to the crowd flipping the face-heel dynamic. I don't think they were really adapting. It was pretty clear fans were going to pick Hogan over Rock during that match, and Rock's promo earlier in the event was a heel promo at Hulk and his fans. The match was certainly laid out in a way that they were expecting the fans to be cheering for Hogan over Rock. IIRC, Hogan has mentioned that they actually flew him home the day before WM or at least after he'd already gotten to Toronto just to get the red and yellow gear for the match based on the reactions that week at Axxess, but then when he got back they decided to stick with the NWO stuff anyway. So there isn't a lot of doubt they knew exactly what was going to happen during the match, it was just how much it was going to play into it which ended up being pretty much the whole way. The only thing keeping Rock from full heel was not cheating to win or mocking Hogan when he did it, which was fine since he wasn't turning heel. Then they didn't crap on the Rock when he made the save and posed with Hogan which was respectful and showed it was more about loving Hulk, then hating Rock or trying to get themselves over like nowadays has turned into. All the heat towards Rock dissipated as soon as the match was over, and the stadium was just standing cheering because they enjoyed wrestling and just saw something historic. Instead of getting pissed over booking decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrzfn Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 In fairness there were no booking decisions to get pissed over (in that match, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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