Jump to content


Photo

Andre The Giant HBO doc


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#21 FMKK

FMKK
  • Members
  • 1084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belfast, Northern Ireland

Posted 06 April 2018 - 05:24 AM

Meltzer gave the doc a positive review overall but poked some holes in the Shoemaker-narrated history of the territories and WWF expansion. Which feeds into a lot of my reservations. 

 

Anytime I listen to Simmons or Shoemaker discuss wrestling history, it's so obvious they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this. 

 

Where did this Shoemaker guy emerge from? I know he's been around for years now but it seems like he had a few years of relevance in like 2013 then faded away again. 



#22 ...TG

...TG
  • Members
  • 890 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas

Posted 06 April 2018 - 11:09 AM

 

Meltzer gave the doc a positive review overall but poked some holes in the Shoemaker-narrated history of the territories and WWF expansion. Which feeds into a lot of my reservations. 

 

Anytime I listen to Simmons or Shoemaker discuss wrestling history, it's so obvious they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this. 

 

Where did this Shoemaker guy emerge from? I know he's been around for years now but it seems like he had a few years of relevance in like 2013 then faded away again. 

 

He started writing wrestling columns for Deadspin under a pseudonym, and Simmons hired him to write for Grantland. Since then he's become one of Bill's guys - Shoemaker works for Simmons' site The Ringer as an editor of some kind in addition to his writing. It's a shame he's so ignorant of non-WWE approved history as (IMO, of course) he's a very good writer.



#23 flyonthewall2983

flyonthewall2983
  • Members
  • 2846 posts

Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:40 PM

HBO's Twitter feed has been all about Andre tonight



#24 flyonthewall2983

flyonthewall2983
  • Members
  • 2846 posts

Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:38 AM

Simmons is on WTF With Marc Maron today



#25 khawk20

khawk20
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 2422 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:13 AM

Not sure why but I thought this premiered on the 15th but it airs tonight on HBO Canada at 10 pm.
Same in the U.S. I assume?



#26 flyonthewall2983

flyonthewall2983
  • Members
  • 2846 posts

Posted 10 April 2018 - 12:38 PM

Yes it is. Simmons had the director and his film guy talk about the movie on his podcast this morning. I'm halfway through the interview and I get the feeling I should have waited until I saw it, so a word of warning if you planned on listening to this soon.



#27 hammerva

hammerva
  • Members
  • 2097 posts

Posted 10 April 2018 - 08:18 PM

Holy shit the footage just 10 minutes in is amazing.  From everywhere.  Granted they are talking about 70's territory wrestling and maybe 50% of it is from the 80's but nitpicking



#28 Childs

Childs
  • Moderators
  • 4616 posts

Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:37 PM

I thought it was well done but not ultimately that different from the carny doc WWE would have made in house. The early footage was the best stuff.

#29 flyonthewall2983

flyonthewall2983
  • Members
  • 2846 posts

Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:53 PM

The whole segment on WrestleMania 3 was the highlight for me. In the context of the documentary I got goosebumps watching clips from a match I've seen many, many times. 



#30 Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander
  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:02 AM

The Andre thing is sort of a thing where you can think "why haven't they gone more in depth" before it, then after a documentary, you realize that new ground really wasn't covered.

 

Not sure if it's possible to really cover new ground with the people around to talk about Andre. Both because of the people available and what else is there really left to cover?

 

And in a way, if the uncovered things were negative about him, I'm not sure there'd really be an audience for "the guy who was a mythic hero in your childhood was actually bad", and that's a thing that has popped up for quite a few people in the last 5 years.

 

Also, Shoemaker sorta comes off as the faux-historian types that show up on shows like Mysteries at the Museum. His timeline on the Andre ankle injury and the Vince expansion was bullshit.

 

I'm not sure if Hogan's WM3 account is technically bullshit if he believed it. Vince is fascinating for reasons, and his claims of banishing bad memories/experiences is interesting when you consider certain things he has mentioned about his life growing up.



#31 The Thread Killer

The Thread Killer

    The Canadian Wildman

  • Members
  • 1326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:33 AM

Vince is fascinating for reasons, and his claims of banishing bad memories/experiences is interesting when you consider certain things he has mentioned about his life growing up.

 

I found that part of the documentary fascinating too, and I totally believe that about Vince McMahon.  Bruce Prichard talked about that exact thing on one of his podcasts, how Vince has the ability to basically banish somebody from his mind once they have had a falling out.  With Prichard it was discussed in the context of the Hebner brothers, but also as it pertained to Bruce himself. Vince can apparently legitimately love you, but once you have a falling out that can't be fixed, you're basically "dead to him" and he doesn't speak of you again - and apparently he does a pretty good job of banishing you from his thoughts.

 

It seemed pretty clear to me that Vince and Andre didn't end on good terms so Vince tries to not even think about it.  I once knew somebody who could do the same thing, and it's a scary personality trait, to be honest.  I'm sure it comes in handy for Vince as a businessman, but still.  I'm not sure how mentally healthy that is. You have to think at some point, feelings of sadness and regret are going to catch up to you, whether you want them to or not.



#32 Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander
  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:04 AM

This isn't obscure trivia by any means, but Andre's last US TV appearance was on the Clash 20 in Atlanta. So, if there were bad feelings, it got to that point of Andre helping out someone he had worked with a bunch before (Watts) even while Watts was the competition to Vince.

 

Then again, Hogan wasn't sure if Andre was gonna job to him, so I could see Vince accidentally exaggerating animosity too.

 

Vince's whole system really does make HHH seem like a Peace Prize candidate for his ability to bring people that had been at odds with Vince back aboard.

 

Then again, it's Vince and he can be contradictory, and some people have (jokingly?) said that being at odds with Vince somehow helped you get another shot with him.

 

I think the Flair 30 for 30 was better than the Andre doc. But there was a lot more to work with in regards to Flair, compared to Andre.



#33 C.S.

C.S.
  • Members
  • 2514 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:28 AM

This is a pretty good interview that explains they had a lot more (Stephanie, Japan, the title win/referee/DiBiase angle, etc.) but cut a lot out for pacing.

http://www.espn.com/...er-bill-simmons

 

I'd love a special edition Blu-ray with all of that footage included as extras.



#34 BrianB

BrianB
  • Members
  • 273 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:31 AM

I'm now more curious than ever about the rumor that Andre slapped Vince around when he got mad at him.

 

Vince is a dodgy fucker. He denied remembering things, but then remembered plenty of stuff when pressed---for example how andre accused vince of exploiting and using him. It reminded me of how Vince presented Taker losing to Brock, but after Austin keep nailing him with follow-ups, the picture became a lot clearer, when at first Vince was giving a different impression.

 

I enjoyed the doc. The timeline definitely got fuzzy and misleading at points. I was hoping we'd get some more Wepner related stuff, and there wasn't anything there, despite how Simmons loves Rocky III. I hope they come out with deleted scenes and more stuff because clearly they trimmed it down to keep it brisk for the casual fans. I was surprised the info about Andre's multiple growth spurts through his life and not comparing his shoe sizes throughout his life didn't make it in.



#35 Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander
  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:26 AM

I guess it's a sign of the post-death reputation boost for the Warrior that he didn't get mentioned in their section about people Andre disliked. Although they would either need to recycle Heenan footage (or have somebody else tell the story) as an example of Andre punching Warrior in the mouth in reaction to how Warrior worked Andre.



#36 victory

victory
  • Members
  • 531 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburb of Chicago.

Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:13 PM

I thought it was good. The biggest surprise to me was how good Hulk came across. Usually he makes me roll my eyes. This time he seemed more genuine. His Savage and Andre impersonations were definitely a highlight.

#37 flyonthewall2983

flyonthewall2983
  • Members
  • 2846 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:32 PM

Vince is a dodgy fucker. He denied remembering things, but then remembered plenty of stuff when pressed---for example how andre accused vince of exploiting and using him. It reminded me of how Vince presented Taker losing to Brock, but after Austin keep nailing him with follow-ups, the picture became a lot clearer, when at first Vince was giving a different impression.

 

The part where he says he immediately puts away negative things, is symptomatic of his childhood trauma from the abuse he endured from his mother and step-father. Somehow it's helped him as a businessman in this regard too, bringing back people who made him money before but left on sour notes (Warrior, and maybe even Brock too). 



#38 Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander
  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:46 PM

I thought it was good. The biggest surprise to me was how good Hulk came across. Usually he makes me roll my eyes. This time he seemed more genuine. His Savage and Andre impersonations were definitely a highlight.

I've read some people who grumbled over Hogan getting a short biopiece in this documentary in the leadup to WM3. But it wasn't like the Bartman 30 for 30 that talked about Bill Buckner.

 

But yeah, Hogan's probably a bit like a political boss, only in Wrestling. If you roll with him, everything is great, and if your interests conflicted with his interests, you were gonna hate him for that. At least until you were able to make some money with him.



#39 Childs

Childs
  • Moderators
  • 4616 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:51 PM

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?

#40 Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander
  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:39 PM

I'm just happy that Hogan didn't claim to have torn every muscle in his back slamming Andre in this documentary. But he probably should have figured out that things were gonna go smoothly once things started happening as were 'laid out' on the 'legal pad'.

 

It is sorta disappointing they couldn't find a way to at least mention Andre winning the title in front of the largest TV audience for wrestling ever (at least in the USA) and causing various kids, including one of my cousins, to cry about Hogan losing.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users