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Andre The Giant HBO doc


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#41 Zoo Enthusiast

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:36 PM

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?


Highlight of the whole thing was Hogan writing out the match spot for spot on the legal pad. Classic Hogan bullshit that I’ll always love.

#42 SomethingSavage

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:45 PM

In a post shoot interview age of podcasts and docu-series, Hogan sticking to his carny roots warms my heart. He's old school well after it's cool, dood.

#43 Hawkeye12

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:29 PM

Great documentary, although I would've liked to see them acknowledge the Main Event title win and leaving WM6 as a babyface back in Canada.  Hulk, Vince, Mean Gene and Lawler were great.  Flair made me laugh a bit, but not sure he interacted enough with Andre to really be needed in there.   Sad that Heenan isn't around to give his input.  I remember him saying when he heard Andre call the bodyslam for the finish, he closed his eyes or turned away because he was afraid Andre wouldn't be able to do it in his condition, then he heard the response and knew they got it done.



#44 Johnny Sorrow

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:02 PM

That was outstanding. Documentaries are movies first and foremost, and that was amazingly well done. They clearly were not professing any agenda beyond here is this man who was mythological, but a man.

#45 iamthedoctor

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 01:31 AM

I'm just happy that Hogan didn't claim to have torn every muscle in his back slamming Andre in this documentary. But he probably should have figured out that things were gonna go smoothly once things started happening as were 'laid out' on the 'legal pad'.

 

It is sorta disappointing they couldn't find a way to at least mention Andre winning the title in front of the largest TV audience for wrestling ever (at least in the USA) and causing various kids, including one of my cousins, to cry about Hogan losing.

 

Pulling 33 million viewers is something of a feat that should been mentioned.

 

I dont think any other match has pulled that in terms of viewership.



#46 BrianB

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:53 AM

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?

 

I guess if Vince and Hogan were both willing to both imply there were headgames going on it's worth passing on? I'm skeptical too. I'm very curious about what the follow-up footage with Vince was and what he said, because like I said, Vince could be a dodgy fucker. But it seems like whenever he's pressed and you've got the goods, he'll clarify, or he'll end up in a situation where he contradicts and then either has to cave or you've got the answer you want.

 

I'd agree that the pre-WM4 stuff is important. But I can see how it muddes a clean 90 min doc. If they had this doc 2 hours, maybe that would've been the right move, second guessing. Then, in those extra 30, you get the story of how Vince parlayed WM3 into helping to lethally wound JCP with Survivor Series 1987 vs. Starrcade w/ Andre's return and the WM4 match--which was heavily centered on Andre vs. Hogan II. But then you're left having to have a narrator explain a number of thigs like Hogan leaving to film a movie and Savage ending up with the title, which might confuse casuals.



#47 BrianB

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:01 AM

 

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?


Highlight of the whole thing was Hogan writing out the match spot for spot on the legal pad. Classic Hogan bullshit that I’ll always love.

 

 

It would've been great if they ran a forensic analysis on that thing and it turned out to be purely frabicrated bullshit, which I coudln't help but think it was. Still, if it wasn't, it's great that people deride Steamboat/Savage if Hogan/Andre was essentially the same thing.



#48 cactus

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:10 AM

Good documentary. I didn't learn all that much new stuff from it, but told Andre's story in a humanizing light. This tugged at my heartstrings a handful of times.



#49 Zoo Enthusiast

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 05:36 AM

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?


Highlight of the whole thing was Hogan writing out the match spot for spot on the legal pad. Classic Hogan bullshit that I’ll always love.
 
It would've been great if they ran a forensic analysis on that thing and it turned out to be purely frabicrated bullshit, which I coudln't help but think it was. Still, if it wasn't, it's great that people deride Steamboat/Savage if Hogan/Andre was essentially the same thing.
Oh yeah, he definitely wrote that out the day before the interview.

#50 Childs

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:09 AM

I listened to the podcast with Simmons and the director, and it left me frustrated. The guy is an astute filmmaker and has a wonderful grasp of the human story of Andre. But he is an idiot about wrestling. He made a huge point of acting as a myth buster, but he had no idea that Vince and Hogan worked the shit out of him. No idea at all. I know it doesnt really matter, but it left a weird taste in my mouth.

#51 Cox

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:22 AM

For me the best parts of the documentary related to his family, and that's stuff that I don't think WWE would have bothered to do if they had produced this in-house. Because this was an HBO doc and they had HBO money, they were able to fly out to France and talk to Andre's family in a way that I don't think WWE would have bothered with had they done their own doc, so for that reason alone, I'm glad this exists, even if it means dealing with the David Shoemaker parts.



#52 Jmare007

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:28 AM

Good doc, not a masterpiece but a lot better than WWE-made effort.

 

I listened to the podcast with Simmons and the director, and it left me frustrated. The guy is an astute filmmaker and has a wonderful grasp of the human story of Andre. But he is an idiot about wrestling. He made a huge point of acting as a myth buster, but he had no idea that Vince and Hogan worked the shit out of him. No idea at all. I know it doesnt really matter, but it left a weird taste in my mouth.

 

Yeah, when I heard the first preview for this doc (with Simmons and Shoemaker) they made it seem this doc would have no bullshit because the director wouldn't allow it. But then I heard the one Simmons did with the director and I could tell Bill didn't know enough and was too attached to his 80's baby mentality to course correct some stuff.

 

But hey, we gotta appreciate that they left out the "Andre was a father figure for Steph" narrative that WWE wanted to push. Vince and Hogan might've worked him - and to be honest, even with the Hogan thing, they had everyone else admitting Andre was just trolling, the problem to me was they spent too much time on his bullshit paranoia - but he was savvy enough to smell bullshit on other stuff.



#53 Cornette's racket

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:00 AM

The stuff with Hogan saying he was afraid that Andre wouldnt put him over at WMIII was pretty hokey. Did we really need to build fake retrospective drama around a match thats famous enough on its own terms?

Highlight of the whole thing was Hogan writing out the match spot for spot on the legal pad. Classic Hogan bullshit that I’ll always love.

Really ? Hogan claimed in the documentary he pulled a macho man ? Bollocks.

That's bollocks about Vince or hulk not knowing whether Andre would do the job in the match. I doubt Vince would have left a detail like that to the last minute. This was a period where stuff was planned out further and what would be the point in doing wrestlemania III if Andre wasn't going to put hogan over.

#54 Johnny Sorrow

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:40 AM

The way it was implied here was that Andre was ribbing Hogan, Hogan didnt want to ask Andre about doing the job and when he went to Vince, Vince played along with the rib to fuck with Hogan. Then it gets into Hogan and his notepad stuff.

#55 El-P

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:39 PM

For me the best parts of the documentary related to his family, and that's stuff that I don't think WWE would have bothered to do if they had produced this in-house. Because this was an HBO doc and they had HBO money, they were able to fly out to France and talk to Andre's family in a way that I don't think WWE would have bothered with had they done their own doc, so for that reason alone, I'm glad this exists, even if it means dealing with the David Shoemaker parts.

 

This. It was really cool to see his family. I have no idea who Shoemaker is, but he was basically useless, why would they even include him when you got Meltz & Laprade already ? Bullshit about WMIII (Hogan was shocked Andre didn't kick out of the legdrop, ya know) and chronology issues/WWE revisionism apart, I thought it was mostly really good. The end got me. I always find it fascinating when Vince almost looks like an actual human being. Flair's innuendo was pretty funny. It's too bad they didn't include the famous Beckett anecdote. Loved the Princess Bride stuff. Good stuff overall.



#56 WingedEagle

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:45 PM

 

For me the best parts of the documentary related to his family, and that's stuff that I don't think WWE would have bothered to do if they had produced this in-house. Because this was an HBO doc and they had HBO money, they were able to fly out to France and talk to Andre's family in a way that I don't think WWE would have bothered with had they done their own doc, so for that reason alone, I'm glad this exists, even if it means dealing with the David Shoemaker parts.

 

This. It was really cool to see his family. I have no idea who Shoemaker is, but he was basically useless, why would they even include him when you got Meltz & Laprade already ? Bullshit about WMIII (Hogan was shocked Andre didn't kick out of the legdrop, ya know) and chronology issues/WWE revisionism apart, I thought it was mostly really good. The end got me. I always find it fascinating when Vince almost looks like an actual human being. Flair's innuendo was pretty funny. It's too bad they didn't include the famous Beckett anecdote. Loved the Princess Bride stuff. Good stuff overall.

 

 

He's the wrestling guy on Bill Simmons's site, which makes him an authority in the boss's eyes.  But he's basically just Brooklyn Scott Keith without the asterisks. 

 

I'm looking forward to watching this weekend for this and other footage that should be really fun to see, but given the Simmons/Shoemaker dedication to wrestling history my expectations are otherwise low.



#57 sek69

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:58 PM

The way it was implied here was that Andre was ribbing Hogan, Hogan didnt want to ask Andre about doing the job and when he went to Vince, Vince played along with the rib to fuck with Hogan. Then it gets into Hogan and his notepad stuff.

 

 

That's how I took it. Hogan was basically thinking "I'm pretty sure he's going to play ball but if he decides not to I'm kind of fucked, so I better make sure of it without pissing him off". 

 

 

Dave mentioned how the Maeda deal happened not long before this and how it ruined Andre's rep as someone to fear if he decides to shoot, but it's not like Hulk was a trained shooter. Plus it seemed silly to think a guy like Andre would decided to fuck up the largest show in wrestling history. 



#58 C.S.

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:00 PM

I have no idea who Shoemaker is, but he was basically useless, why would they even include him when you got Meltz & Laprade already ?


Shoemaker was the guy that looks like the main character from Split, right? He did have that cool "before there was CGI, there was Andre the Giant" line. Other than that, I wish we had gotten less Shoemaker - he was in way too much of the movie - and more of the footage that was cut (Stephanie, Japan, etc.).

 

I don't think Meltzer and Laprade added much to this documentary either though - at least not in front of the camera.



#59 BrianB

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:23 PM

I listened to the podcast with Simmons and the director, and it left me frustrated. The guy is an astute filmmaker and has a wonderful grasp of the human story of Andre. But he is an idiot about wrestling. He made a huge point of acting as a myth buster, but he had no idea that Vince and Hogan worked the shit out of him. No idea at all. I know it doesnt really matter, but it left a weird taste in my mouth.

 

He did an interview with Meltzer that was good. If they got him for a follow-up maybe that'd be interesting.



#60 BrianB

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:26 PM

The way it was implied here was that Andre was ribbing Hogan, Hogan didnt want to ask Andre about doing the job and when he went to Vince, Vince played along with the rib to fuck with Hogan. Then it gets into Hogan and his notepad stuff.

 

This.

 

 

For me the best parts of the documentary related to his family, and that's stuff that I don't think WWE would have bothered to do if they had produced this in-house. Because this was an HBO doc and they had HBO money, they were able to fly out to France and talk to Andre's family in a way that I don't think WWE would have bothered with had they done their own doc, so for that reason alone, I'm glad this exists, even if it means dealing with the David Shoemaker parts.

 

This. It was really cool to see his family. I have no idea who Shoemaker is, but he was basically useless, why would they even include him when you got Meltz & Laprade already ? Bullshit about WMIII (Hogan was shocked Andre didn't kick out of the legdrop, ya know) and chronology issues/WWE revisionism apart, I thought it was mostly really good. The end got me. I always find it fascinating when Vince almost looks like an actual human being. Flair's innuendo was pretty funny. It's too bad they didn't include the famous Beckett anecdote. Loved the Princess Bride stuff. Good stuff overall.

 

 

The Beckett anecdote is basically fabricated.

 

Andre might've rode with Beckett sometimes to school, but so did basically every other kid when it rained and Beckett was out. There wasn't a special relationship. Since Andre didn't explode in height and size until like 15-17 most of the stuff connected to that story is BS.






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