[2018-04-07-WWE-NXT Takeover: New Orleans] Johnny Gargano vs Tomasso Ciampa (Unsanctioned)

[Matt D]

The NXT taping sheet from last week that leaked out had Michaels and Taylor producing the Gargano match. I am going to infer that Michaels had a hand in this, as I first thought, and reiterate how I have always said that Michaels would be a better director than an actor because he lacked emotional subtlety and range. He had ideas in his late career that transcended most wrestling matches in a way that leaned towards the WWE cinematic ideal, but lacked the ability to execute them.

[KB8]

I read that earlier as well, and it's easy to make the connection in hindsight, but yeah...that was total Shawn Michaels big feud melodrama (with good acting).

[El-P]

Honestly, that was the part I liked the least and could have done without. Which is probably why also I have Almas vs Black above this one (nitpicking of course at this level).

[Boss Rock]

Originally wrote this for the GME project:

 

THIS is how you end a feud. Was like a Southern territory blow-off meets King's Road with violence, emotional storytelling, and clever callbacks. The former best friends start brawling almost immediately but then begin to work a slower, more deliberate pace to try and brutalize each other. Ciampa was clearly going to take his time and relish the pain he would inflict on Johnny. Johnny mounted his comebacks simply to survive but as the match went on, he became more and more obsessed with punishing Ciampa for his sins. They weaved almost every single part of this feud into the in-ring story: the attacks with the crutches, Johnny's futile crawl to Ciampa, Ciampa's hesitation to put Johnny away in the CWC, and Ciampa lulling Johnny into a false sense of security before striking at Chicago.

 

The climax of this match is what sticks out to me the most. Emotional stuff like this is always hard to pull off as wrestlers aren't always the best actors (especially when it comes to sentimentality). In the hands of a lot of other wrestlers this would have been schmaltzy and melodramatic, but Johnny and Ciampa were as authentic as can be. You went from "Johnny you idiot! This is the guy who betrayed you!" to "Oh my God, Johnny don't do it! He was your best friend!" Ciampa looks resigned to his fate, perhaps regretful as Johnny laments how it could have ever come to this between them. Then when you think all hope is lost, the face is one step ahead and pulls off the victory.

 

Tremendous match and easily the best so far this year.

[Loss]

This is the most personal, violent, intense and full of storytelling brawl modern WWE can do. I miss more brutality (thinking about SCSA/Hart, HHH/Foley Street Fight, Cena/Umaga, Taker/Edge HIAC...) and they have a couple of "we-don't-know-what-to-do-right-now-give-us-a-second" moments, but fuck, they killed it here. Amazing chapter of a perfect rivalry. ****1/4.

 

Nope. Misawa had two in 1995, yes, but they weren't both singles matches. And actually, yes, Kobashi I'd argue as having two in 1998. That was one that escaped me.

 

El Dandy 1990

Kenta Kobashi 1998

Johnny Gargano 2018

According to your top 500 of the 90s, Dandy's 5* matches that year were la lucha de cabelleras against Satánico and....? Wasn't vs Azteca ****3/4?

 

 

I've wavered back and forth on that one. Yes, you're right. Last time I watched Dandy-Azteca, I took off 1/4*.

[IpponDropkick]

I really, really liked this but it does lose a little to me based on them forcing this "This is my moment!" thing into the match repeatedly despite it having absolutely nothing to do with the match. This wasn't a match about a "moment". It's a match about personal disgust and betrayal, your best friend turning on you. That's not a time for clever phrases. That's a time to stay quiet and kick ass.

 

Other than that, good stuff. Really dug it. Would have liked to see them go back into the ring between the outside stuff a few more times just to make the stuff out at ringside breath a little more but that may have made the time a little too long.

[Edwin]

This is a really cool detail from the match that I'm sure a lot of people didn't grasp when they watched it:

 

[SmartMark15]

This is a really cool detail from the match that I'm sure a lot of people didn't grasp when they watched it:

 

One of my favorite moments. Loved it.

[Boss Rock]

Fantastic, did not catch that the first time.

[Microstatistics]

I didn't hate it like SLB did, in fact I thought it was really good. But I think his criticisms are valid and it is no where near classic level for me. There was WAY too much downtime between spots. It really, really needed a much tighter layout to be great. Don't think it needed to go 40 minutes. I loved the storytelling element though. I am a fan of well done melodrama in wrestling, whether it's Shawn vs. Flair/Taker or Hashimoto vs. Choshu and they nailed it here. Brilliant finishing stretch. Pretty awesome character and the intensity and hate were on point. Also genuine heel heat for Ciampa was nice to see. ***1/2

[Cap]

So I rewatched this the other day and it went down a notch for me. Don't get me wrong. I still think it is a GREAT match, something special, but given that it is getting some "greatest match ever" conversation, even a small downtick feels like a massive decline.

 

As much as anything this match might be the best case study for different tastes, what people prioritize, context vs rewatch value, match rating vs story arch, etc etc etc. To me, his was a lot of fun, great drama, lots of interesting callbacks, but it is an in the moment match and has diminishing returns. For some people that in-the-momentness will be the most important part of wrestling and that is cool. However, when I am rating or thinking about match quality in any way, rewatch value is very important to me and there are at least 2 matches this year alone (maybe 3 or 4) that have more rewatch value, that keep me engaged outside of thier emotional and narrative context. I don't completely disregard context so this is still a real MOTY candidate and I would be shocked if it fell out of my top 5 or 10 for the year, but I am moving away from this as a potential all timer, myself.

[cactus]

On 4/8/2018 at 11:09 AM, cactus said:

Okay, we all can agree that Johnny Gargano is the greatest babyface in wrestling right now? Good. Let's now talk about how Tomasso Ciampa is the best heel in the business currently. From the moment he stepped out from the curtain, he was vilified by the smark heavy audience. I did not hear one pro-CIampa chant and rightfully so. He's so good at being a right psychotic bastard. When he's paired with the most loved guy in the industry not called Daniel Bryan, you are guaranteed a great showing at the worst.

 

Was this bloated? Sure. But it's bloated in the way a Kurosawa epic might be. At the end of the match, you felt like you have traveled on an intense journey with the characters. All the big moments deliver in spades and that more than makes up for the slower paced parts of this 37 minute wrestling odyssey.

 

★★★★½

Rewatched this for the GME project and I didn't like this match as much I did the first time I saw it. They try way too hard to make this an epic, with them taking forever to set up spots. The stare down they do when the crutch is in the middle of the ring was way too cutesy for me tastes. There's good stuff to be found here though, with Ciampa's crazed heel performance still standing the test of time and the big spots generally deliver. 

★★★½

[EnviousStupid]

The first half was sleep-inducing. Really transparent attempt at heated brawling when you prioritize spot -> set-up -> spot so much in the layout. I guess that makes sense in retrospect given what we know about Shawn Michaels' input for this match. Gargano jumping over the barrier onto Ciampa immediately gave me the sense that it was closer to playfighting than what I want pro wrestling to look like. The second half was a major improvement though. The big moves felt warranted for a 2018 TakeOver match and made for some good nearfalls, even if it did go a tad overboard (Project Ciampa off the second rope meaning nothing in the long run, for example). Callbacks to a lot of their history together were really effective and hooked me back into the drama. Really liked how desperate and tense Ciampa got, as he felt like the one who actually projected the importance of this match as a whole. For me, it's in the same boat as Omega/Ibushi vs. The Young Bucks one month earlier as a really ambitious story-driven match that doesn't do it for me, but they have more good things than bad going for it. They do better in the rematch.