The interesting Dave Meltzer posts thread

[kjh]

Nah... WP/RE is just this strange. The posters here have been in threads with him before where he's been like this and not trolling.

The two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

[rovert]

8 users are reading this topic

 

Seriously da fuck guys?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

(And didn't Dave's wife give birth to a daughter last year, too?)

Yeah, his kids are named Cody and Carly. How very Kathie Lee of him.

[jdw]

Nah... WP/RE is just this strange. The posters here have been in threads with him before where he's been like this and not trolling.

The two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Understood. In this case... I don't think so.

 

John

[Jingus]

Seriously? More men would rather have Serena Williams than the babe in Transformers?

I would. But I'm hardly a good representation of common male mating traits. I think Awesome Kong is cuter than, say, Ashley Massaro. (Admittedly, I did have to go pretty deep into the "unattractive skinny white girls" pool to an example that worked, but still.) RE's scientific theories do have some tiny kernels of truth to them, but those are only tendencies and inclinations. Individual human personalities trample over natural tendencies all the time.

[kjh]

On a related note and to try to get the thread back on track, Dave Meltzer wrote this in the latest Wrestling Observer Newsletter:

 

McIntyre is already losing favor with some people in the office based on behavior. Marrying Tiffany has nothing to do with it.

It says something about the wrestling business that Dave felt he needed to point that out.

[S.L.L.]

As far as the questions go, there are general overall rules on a women's behaviour when it comes to love and how a male triggers or repels it. Everyone is of course different but the general rules are there. It's all rooted in biology. I've studied it, talked to people who have studied it a lot more than I have and have come to the same conclusions they did after thinking about interactions with women. When you experience and can see the whole overview map things make sense. Growing up, I was "confused" as a lot of guys are since love for a women is more complicated and often times a contradiction. They have to be more sure when hooking up than guys do and with that process comes complications.

 

 

Just for the record here, people don't believe this????

 

Nobody believes that a woman generally is geared to look for the man who will give her the strongest children? As per the original statement, Nobody believes that a woman generally is biologically programmed to be not loose? HONOSTLY? SERIOUSLY?

 

Nobody believes that a man generally is geared to look for women who will give him the healthiest children? (To S.L.L yes we are also rooted to stay with our children as well)

 

And as a result we have actions stemming from that which guide us into choosing a mate?

 

I believe some of it. The problem that keeps other people from believing it, and that I am trying to get through your thick skull, is that looking at this purely from a biological/dawn-of-man primal instincts standpoint doesn't tell the whole story. Not even close.

 

Maybe, I'll go a step further now. People can surely agree the point of sex and the reason it is pleasurable is so that it will push you into having children?

Yeah... but no.

The clitoris is the only human organ with no purpose at all except pleasure. And it has no use at all for making children.

Sure it does. By making sex more pleasurable for women, it makes them more willing to reproduce. It's very useful in that regard. Of course, as previously mentioned, we can easily separate the concept of sex and sexual pleasure from the concept of reproduction, so, yeah.

 

Kate Moss looks quite attractive to most guys I know. Is that because they think she would bear a healthy kid ?

I am not familiar with Kate Moss (I don't really know how she's built) so I youtubed her name "

and judging by the 15 seconds I watched from this I noticed she has a waist to hip ratio that is attractive to men. There is a certain percentage -- I forget what the exact number is -- of a waist to hip ratio that is most attractive to men. I forget what the exact number is but if you divide they hips into the waist and get a certain perecentage give or take a little bit it is pretty much a lock than men will find the lady attractive. Yes, that has been backed up by scientific research.

 

From the Wikipedia article on physical attractiveness, namely the subsection on determinants of female physical attractiveness....

 

Waist-hip ratio

 

Notwithstanding wide cultural differences in preferences for female build, scientists have discovered that the waist-hip ratio (WHR) of any build is very strongly correlated to attractiveness across cultures. Women with a 0.7 WHR (waist circumference that is 70% of the hip circumference) are usually rated as more attractive by men from European cultures. Such diverse beauty icons as Jessica Alba, Marilyn Monroe, Salma Hayek, Sophia Loren, and the Venus de Milo all have ratios around 0.7. In other cultures, preferences vary, ranging from 0.6 in China, to 0.8 or 0.9 in parts of South America and Africa, and divergent preferences based on ethnicity, rather than nationality, have also been noted. The hourglass shape characterized by a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 has been described as attractive.

Yeah, there actually seems to be science to back it up, and that is some pretty select company up there...but then you start crunching the numbers yourself.

 

Most commonly accepted measurements of Marilyn Monroe are 37-23-36. That puts her waist-to-hip ratio at about 0.64, which is "around" 0.7, but then, one wonders how close you have to be to be "around" the alleged golden number.

 

I went through the rest of that group, some of the names mentioned here, and a bunch of others, to see what they'd come up with. Unsurprisingly, it's hard to come by measurements of WNBA players. Also, the Venus de Milo seems to be very tight-lipped about her measurements.

 

So if 0.7 is the magic number, the ranking of these women's beauty should go:

 

Madonna: 0.7

Kylie Minogue: 0.7

 

Lindsay Davenport: 0.71

Alessandra Ambrosio: 0.71

Jessica Biel: 0.71

Scarlett Johansson: 0.69

Betty Grable: 0.69

Raquel Welch: 0.69

Adrienne Barbeau: 0.69

Farrah Fawcett: 0.69

Jean Harlow: 0.69

Clara Bow: 0.71

Oprah Winfrey: 0.71

Shakira 0.71

 

Salma Hayek: 0.68

Teri Hatcher: 0.68

Jennifer Lopez: 0.68

 

Tyra Banks: 0.67

Serena Williams: 0.73 (hips built more for athletics than child-bearing, interestingly, though I don't doubt she could do both)

Mickie James: 0.73

Kim Basinger: 0.67

Jessica Simpson: 0.67

Marlene Dietrich: 0.73

 

Jessica Alba: 0.74

Kate Moss: 0.66 (yes, she skews as having hips that are too wide...I guess on a frame that small, you don't notice)

Bettie Page: 0.66

Lana Turner: 0.74

 

Gisele Bundchen: 0.75

Angelina Jolie: 0.75

Pamela Anderson: 0.65

 

Marilyn Monroe: 0.64 (yes, science says all of these women listed above are more desirable mates than the woman who's name is practically synonymous with female beauty...keyword being "mates")

Megan Fox: 0.76

Michelle McCool: 0.76

Christina Aguilera: 0.64

 

Sophia Loren: 0.63

Joey Heatherton: 0.63

 

Claudia Cardinale: 0.62

 

Courtney Cox: 0.8

 

Halle Berry: 0.59

Britney Spears: 0.81

 

Brigitte Bardot: 0.57

 

Now, what does this all mean? Well, it means a couple of things....

 

1. I have way too much free time on my hands.

 

2. If nothing else, an hourglass figure is still considered to be a desirable trait in women, and that plus the anthropological "ideal mate" thing is enough to make me buy that waist-to-hip ratio is a factor in determining attractiveness. A factor - as in, one factor. Lindsay Davenport and Oprah Winfrey are not ugly women, and I'll admit the media's attempts at selling Serena Williams as a sex symbol have worked better on me than they probably have on other guys, but they're all the way up there and Marilyn and Sophia are down near the bottom? Brigitte Bardot is dead last? Clearly, there are other things going on.

 

3. Even if one accepts that waist-to-hip ratio is significant, it's pretty clear looking at those numbers that if a "golden number" exists at all, it's basically insignificant, because it's overwhelmed by countless other factors.

 

I never watched the Transfomers movie because I do not like what I have seen of Michael Bay's work. I have heard that the woman put in the Transformers movie for guys to look at may be too skinny. I'm not sure on that and I may be wrong because I haven't seen the movie but I would still like to comment on it.

Megan Fox is pretty much the consensus hottest girl in the world so...yeah, you're wrong. Nice to see you might be willing to admit that for a change. And she was way down the list. Right next to Marilyn, actually, although on the opposite side of the spectrum.

 

Unfortunately in life, some guys have been programmed through teh media and society to find women that are too skinny attractive. This is someting that is bad, bad, bad, bad. Deep down on an intinct level it is my belief that they don't but it is extremely difficult to overcome the influnce that is our enviornment. Women are also programmed this way to think they're supposed to be too skinny and all it does is make women unhealthy and guys and girls unhappy.

Yes, the media creating and perpetuating unhealthy body images in women is bad. But as far as the bolded statement goes, the media has given us another message that applies quite nicely....

 

“You keep on using that word … I do not think it means what you think it means.”

 

Instincts, by definition, is something inherent to the species, that we all have, that is unlearned, and that is unavoidable.

 

You know how many instincts human being have?

 

One.

 

Use of the mouth, particularly as an infant. Not even a specific use. We've just got to use it somehow. And that's it. In fact, there's some question as to whether or not even that is in instinct. Possible that humans have no instincts whatsoever. There's no instinct to be attracted to women with the right waist-to-hip ratio, because there's no instinct to be attracted to women. No instinct to be attracted to anyone. No instinct to reproduce. No instinct to create life. No instinct to continue your own. No instinct to eat, drink, sleep, or do anything else that your body isn't just doing on auto-pilot. Just as long as your mouth gets to do it's thing every now and then, your instinctual needs are being met.

 

We've a long way from the caveman days, Res.

 

As far as athletic women go, if a women is too athletic she becomes more manly to the eye and thus less attractive to straight men. One wants to high five a female buddy like you would your male buddy for developing the muscle but as that happens the desire to mate with her becomes less and less. A man tends to want a feminine woman as a mate.

Uh, if we're "programmed" to seek out the ideal mate, shouldn't that override such petty issues as said mate appearing too masculine? Jeez, even you're arguing against your argument now.

[jdw]

I missed that part about athletic women. I've always been attracted to athletic women from as early as I can remember.

 

Perhaps that's a 70s things, growing up with Title IX, King-Riggs and the massive explosion girls playing sports and being much more active. Back them, give me a girl who could hold up her end of a mixed double pairing in tennis, or playing some mixed volleyball, or doing some co-ed softball, or the boys soccer team splitting up with the girls team to scrimage together... athletic girls fucking ruled, and were as hot any other girls in school.

 

Is any of that still in me at the age of 44? The lady in my life for the past 14 years is a black belt and could kick the living shit out of me if I was a complete dick.

 

This is the problem with being too general. All women, and all men, don't fit so nicely into single boxes. You may be freaked out by athletic women and confused by how they make you feel, but there are plenty of men who don't have a problem with them, or are actually attracted to athletic women.

 

This of course leaves out body building women, as I've never thought of body building, male or female, being athletic. Again a 70s things: us athletes played sports, and what Arnold and Lou did wasn't sports to us.

 

John

[Resident Evil]

Sigh, I don't have much free time. I'm on 3hrs sleep and it's 2 in the morning here. I am tempted for arguements sake to go into more detail but I actually don't want to go into what makes women tick (and yes I know what makes men tick too) and give helpful insight because of the way I've been treated. Hmmm, 7 readers reading this topic. Maybe I should've become a wrestler and you guys could argue all day on wether my matches were worked or not. I'd be a great draw. Heeey Phil!!

 

To clarify, yes everyone does not fit in the same box. We are all different and as a result we find men who are total alpha males or we have men who were perhaps raised on too much soy!!!! and have turned feminine.

 

Likewise we have women who are totally feminine to women who have more masculine traits to feminists who have brainwashed a lot of people. Not everybody has the same tastes.

 

There are rules though that govern are actions that are derived from the desire to reproduce wether one thinks they want to reproduce or not. We are wired that way. And I will go to my grave defending the statements that feminine women are always on the look out for the top male. That they pride themselves on not being loose due to that wiring. Now here's the catch. Pure physical strenght is only part of the equation. In fact, weaker physical males can win out if they have other top traits within them (a lot of people don't have them though) that the strong physical male might not have. It is more difficult and a longer process for a women to find out if a man is the real deal than it is for a man to find the woman he wants. Biology drives women even if they are not conciously aware of it. It is amazing to see how powerful all this is in action.

 

Uh, if we're "programmed" to seek out the ideal mate, shouldn't that override such petty issues as said mate appearing too masculine? Jeez, even you're arguing against your argument now.

A feminine woman likes being feminine. We males love masculine things but when it comes to women we want feminine things. Look at it this way. You take the most beautiful woman in the world BUT give her a masculine voice and chances are you will not be attracted to her. So if a women's voice becomes more masculine, you will be less attracted to her the more masculine it gets. True or False SLL? A guy is looking for a feminine women and building too much muscle is not feminine. The ideal mate will not have too much muscle.

 

Now this brings to me a fascinating point. It has been recently discovered and I believe proven that a women's voice becomes more feminine and attractive to her male companion the more attracted she is to you. This I can attest to with 100% certainity as I have experienced it myself.

 

Edit -- I would like to mention that I do love a women who exercises overone who doesn't. It is a terrific sign that a female wants to keep herself in shape because it is better for her health and to keep me attracted to her thus keeping us both happy. I am just not sexually attracted to muscle on a body. I'm not attracted to women who are out of shape either though I can love them as friends.

[sek69]

My only question is how did you become such an expert in how the human brain operates? Unless it's some kind of Rain Man thing and mapping the inner workings of the human mind just happens to be your restricted behavior (sup SLL)? How did you become 100% certain on how people think?

 

 

Also I know this is like shooting fish in a barrel, but:

 

I am just not sexually attracted to muscle on a body.

Every post you've ever made on the internet highly suggests otherwise.

[Resident Evil]

My only question is how did you become such an expert in how the human brain operates? Unless it's some kind of Rain Man thing and mapping the inner workings of the human mind just happens to be your restricted behavior (sup SLL)? How did you become 100% certain on how people think?

 

 

I am just not sexually attracted to muscle on a body.

Every post you've ever made on the internet highly suggests otherwise.

 

And where have I ever stated taht I like muscle on a women's body in a sexual sense?

 

Do I respect it? Yeah, you better believe it. I know the hard work it takes especially for a women who has a harder time developing muscle than a man does.

 

 

As far as men goes, I don't find it sexually attractive on them which I kind of guess is what you're referring to. However, I do look up to them as role models for their work ethic.

 

 

Now the first question, I am not an expert on how the human mind works. There are a lot of people smarter than me who know a lot more than I do.

 

I however have studied a lot on how women worked and thought about other people's relationships and my own interactions. I've listened to people who know more than I do. With this comes study on how the male mind works and I have always been interested in how to improve myself. Since I myself am different, I wanted more perspective on that.

 

Ok now I'm outta here. If anyone wants to ask me a question than PM me because I don't want to get sucked into talking about this anymore. I may or may not answer.

[El-P]

Sure it does. By making sex more pleasurable for women, it makes them more willing to reproduce. It's very useful in that regard.

Lot of woman can't have orgasm with just a simple penetration. Unless the clitoris is stimulated, and it is not stimulated by a vaginal penetration. So, it's a useless organ in regard to "giving the urge to reproduce", as our expert friend would say.

 

Of course, as previously mentioned, we can easily separate the concept of sex and sexual pleasure from the concept of reproduction, so, yeah.

Yep.

[El-P]

A feminine woman likes being feminine. We males love masculine things but when it comes to women we want feminine things.

What does that mean anyway ? Feminine in what way ? Wearing dress and high heels, and makeup ? Since we are talking about private exemples, I was telling my better half the other day, that even when she's wearing a miniskirt and boots, she still has that truck driver attitude to her that just won't go away. Made her laugh because it's true. She does not behave in a very feminine way in some aspect. Yet she looks very feminine if she wants to and when that's the case she gets hit on regularly. And although I pushes her to dress feminine because she's a good looking woman and she looks great when she does, I also like the fact that she's raw and crude and that I can joke with her the same trivial way I would with some goofball male friend. So. Where is the feminity in all that ? And do I like her masculine side too ? These are not questions waiting for an actual answer, it's just a way to tell you it's a lot more complicated than "finding alpha male" - "finding feminine healthy looking woman".

 

You take the most beautiful woman in the world BUT give her a masculine voice and chances are you will not be attracted to her.

If you mean a deep low voice, you're dead wrong. It's über sexy. I love woman with deep low voice.

 

It's not so simple. Androginy can be sexy too. Jane Birkin (wife of Serge Gainsbourg) was (is) a flat woman, no breast, and had short hair in the 70's, but she was a sex symbol and looked just awesome.

[Johnny Sorrow]

You take the most beautiful woman in the world BUT give her a masculine voice and chances are you will not be attracted to her.

 

"Suck it, weirdo."

[vikingsfan73]

You take the most beautiful woman in the world BUT give her a masculine voice and chances are you will not be attracted to her.

 

"Suck it, weirdo."

 

That's exactly who I was thinking of!

[jdw]

It's not so simple. Androginy can be sexy too. Jane Birkin (wife of Serge Gainsbourg) was (is) a flat woman, no breast, and had short hair in the 70's, but she was a sex symbol and looked just awesome.

Natasha Kinski was pretty androginous looking in Cat People, but kids my age thought she was hot as shit when that came out and were coming up with ways to sneak into that R rated movie. The photo with the snake was iconic.

 

John

[S.L.L.]

To clarify, yes everyone does not fit in the same box. We are all different and as a result we find men who are total alpha males or we have men who were perhaps raised on too much soy!!!! and have turned feminine.

 

Likewise we have women who are totally feminine to women who have more masculine traits to feminists who have brainwashed a lot of people. Not everybody has the same tastes.

Oh wow, now you're an out-and-out bigot. Awesome. You just inched that much closer to Sean Shannon.

 

And I will go to my grave defending the statements that feminine women are always on the look out for the top male.

 

Alone, of course.

 

Uh, if we're "programmed" to seek out the ideal mate, shouldn't that override such petty issues as said mate appearing too masculine? Jeez, even you're arguing against your argument now.

A feminine woman likes being feminine. We males love masculine things but when it comes to women we want feminine things. Look at it this way. You take the most beautiful woman in the world BUT give her a masculine voice and chances are you will not be attracted to her. So if a women's voice becomes more masculine, you will be less attracted to her the more masculine it gets. True or False SLL?

 

True...which your main argument false, which is what I was trying to say. If all this wiring was doing the shit you claim it's supposed to be doing, we wouldn't let petty aesthetic issues like a women being too masculine stop us from making time with them if they were ideal reproductive partners. This whole time, you've been arguing that all human sexual behavior is based on ancient "programming" designed to get make us reproduce with the best possible partners for the purpose of reproduction, but now, all of a sudden, that programming can be completely overridden because girls with muscles don't look pretty? You just argued against your own argument, you nitwit! If men, generally speaking, can decide "this woman is really healthy and would produce great offspring...but she kinda looks like a dude, so I'll pass", then your precious programming either doesn't work or isn't there.

 

Unless it's some kind of Rain Man thing and mapping the inner workings of the human mind just happens to be your restricted behavior (sup SLL)?

Sup, Sek! Honestly, the physical sciences aren't even really my thing for the most part (although there is some crossover here with psychology, which, as I think I've mentioned elsewhere, is more up my street). This is more just "stuff I happen to know", so when Res haphazardly types up this drivel, I'm in a prime position to explain why he's wrong (just in case it wasn't blindingly obvious to begin with) or why he's right, but failing to present the information correctly. Like Jingus said, there's actually a kernel of truth to a lot of what he's written here. It's just that he doesn't know how to make that kernel into delicious, delicious popcorn, and it's buried under so much RE brand stupidity and creepiness that it's hard to agree with even the stuff he gets right.

 

Now the first question, I am not an expert on how the human mind works. There are a lot of people smarter than me who know a lot more than I do.

Well, I don't think anyone is going to disagree with him about this.

 

I've listened to people who know more than I do.

And you've completely ignored them.

 

With this comes study on how the male mind works and I have always been interested in how to improve myself. Since I myself am different, I wanted more perspective on that.

But then when we tried to give you more perspective, you did the same thing you always do, which I already outlined. Forgot to mention - though you demonstrated it anyway - that you usually talk a good game about being open-minded, wanting to improve yourself, being willing to listen to others, but I've yet to see you actually do any of those things...so, yeah, suck it, weirdo.

[Log]

Is it odd that I find the things RE's written on Davey Richards creepier than all of this stuff?

[MikeCampbell]

Jim Jefferies already debunked the stud/slut argument during his HBO special. A stud has to be funny, charming, sweet, etc to score. A slut just has to be there.

[Loss]

Closing this since there is no "Split This Topic" option for the board admins here. If you want to continue this discussion, please do so in The Lessons of 2006. I'll open a new Dave thread shortly.