Good Trope/Bad Trope

[kjh]

I think Loss is right when he calls those Shawn matches "inoffensive, but not particularly good". When he's in with lesser workers like Skinner, Blake Beverley, I.R.S., Adam Bomb and Kwang, the results are even less inspiring. Though I haven't seen the matches in a long time, so maybe I'm giving Bret a bit of an unfair rap.

[Dylan Waco]

During watching for the SC poll I saw at least one really good Bret v. Skinner and Bret v. IRS match.

 

I don't think I ever saw Bret v. Adam Bomb or Bret v. Kwang, though I'd actually be fairly surprised if Bret v. Kwang wasn't at least interesting.

[Loss]

It's something that maybe doesn't get talked about it like it should, but considering how much hype the rivalry received and how many times they faced each other as each guy was climbing the ladder, Bret/Shawn was not a particularly great feud. I like the Ironman match more than most people, and I thought some of the brawling at Montreal was fun, but Michaels had far better matches with Jannetty in 1992-1993, and with most other people in 1996-1997.

 

Some of the 1996-1997 can just come down to two guys who really hated each other, but they got along fine in 1992, and those matches just didn't really click. Shawn was still finding his way as a singles wrestler at this point, so it's not even a case of me assigning blame. But you'd think even then, Bret and Shawn could put together better matches than they did.

[KrisZ]

Michaels vs. Davey > Michaels vs. Bret as far as overall match quality goes.

[Tim Evans]

Bret vs Shawn was all about the heat and Mic work for me.

[Bob Morris]

I do remember a Raw match from its early years where Bret faced Headshrinker Fatu. I recalled it to be a pretty good match, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.

 

Of course, I imagine it helped that the match was televised (hence Bret was motivated) and Fatu at the time was generally willing to make his opponent look good.

[Eduardo]

I do remember a Raw match from its early years where Bret faced Headshrinker Fatu. I recalled it to be a pretty good match, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.

 

Of course, I imagine it helped that the match was televised (hence Bret was motivated) and Fatu at the time was generally willing to make his opponent look good.

Is this the match? There is an awesome "playing possum" spot early on that I don't think I've ever seen out of Bret before.

[Frankensteiner]

I do remember a Raw match from its early years where Bret faced Headshrinker Fatu. I recalled it to be a pretty good match, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.

 

Of course, I imagine it helped that the match was televised (hence Bret was motivated) and Fatu at the time was generally willing to make his opponent look good.

Is this the match? There is an awesome "playing possum" spot early on that I don't think I've ever seen out of Bret before.

 

It's the right match, but it's clipped there. The full version is about 3-4 min longer. I've always liked that match and was always surprised it doesn't get talked about more.

[Bob Morris]

I do remember a Raw match from its early years where Bret faced Headshrinker Fatu. I recalled it to be a pretty good match, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.

 

Of course, I imagine it helped that the match was televised (hence Bret was motivated) and Fatu at the time was generally willing to make his opponent look good.

Is this the match? There is an awesome "playing possum" spot early on that I don't think I've ever seen out of Bret before.

 

It's the right match, but it's clipped there. The full version is about 3-4 min longer. I've always liked that match and was always surprised it doesn't get talked about more.

 

Thanks to those who pulled that one up. That match has held up pretty well.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

I saw the match and its not talked about because its nothing memorable. There is nothing in that match that should be mentioned again expect for the Bret " I tweaked my knee' spot. Slow...boring paint-by-the-numbers match from Raw's early days.

[ohtani's jacket]

Speaking of Bret matches, I just watched the Bret/Austin match from South Africa. It's solid enough, kinda like a pre-cursor to their Survivor Series match. But it doesn't offer much proof that Bret could wrestle different kinds of matches or was the great storyteller that he's meant to be.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

This has nothing to do with what O.J. has been talking about (though I read everything you wrote and watched a few matches with your eyes and I saw a whole new match; so thank you!), but I do want to just add to the list of tropes that werent covered on the website or by the OP. This is more WWE specific then promotions in general.

 

1. Champions running down to the ring with their title belts around their shoulder to 'save' someone.

 

Corny. Plain and simple. Let's Kayfabe this for a second:wrestling is real. Gordi is in the ring getting his ass handed to him and before Ray makes the save and kicks ass for his fallen commarade, he makes sure to grab his title belt and use that uneeded weight to 'sprint' to the ring in a 'hurry'. It is the equal to Elanie stopping to get Juju Fruit before going to the hospital to see a friend who was rushed there. I know WHY WWE does it, but it doesnt make it right and it doesn't make it less corny. It should stop.

 

2. The staredown

 

In the right situation this can work. HHH/Orton post RKO to Stephanie is an example of it being good. WWE uses this formula TOO MUCH though where it has become a parody of itself. EVERY WRESTLER NOW stares down their opponent whether they win or lose. The loser is always shocked and if its a Diva that means standing on the ramp with hands on hips or standing in the ring leaning against the top rope with an angry face. The formula was exposed to be even weaker and sillier then I thought when after a 5 on 5 Diva tag match the victors stood outside and looked into the ring and the losers stood in the ring with hands on hips and mean faces. Layla(who was on the loosing team) was on the outside by the ring post (camera left) which was MERE feet (maybe 3-4) from one of the people who beat their team...what does she do(remember she is 'pissed' at losing)? She rolls into the ring to lean against the ropes and make an angry face! WTF?

 

3. The General Managers (touched on in OP's post)

 

I understand why they are there. Jack Tunney was there, but this guy didn't go into business for himself. Let's kayfabe this for a second: wrestling is real! I am a GM and I pack my lunch and bring it to the arena. Batista eats it. Well that only means one thing: time to put the screws to him in the public circle. Batista is my top seller of merch and is bringing people to the arena BUT COT DAMNIT HE ATE MY CHICKEN SALAD SANDWICH(the one with grapes and apples in the mix). So I set up matches to embarrass him and eventual take him out of the title picture (thus losing money in a way) and try to injure him. Can you imagine this happening in any other sport? Its sabotage and yet WWE tries to pass it off as STOIC vision and as said earlier in the thread, if the GM is a face then they ALWAYS seem way over their head and also make stupid matches (only in favor of the faces).

 

4. The Divas matches ending in rollups 98% of the time

 

Well maybe this isn't a trope, but it is something that pisses me off. I don't take women's wrestling serious at all (TNA and SHIMMER being the rare exceptions) but why the rollup finish so much? How much heat is being saved? Is the division so small that Gail being pinned clean will do more harm to her then good? I just don't get it.

[Guest Slickster]

It's tough to botch a rollup?