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BuryWindham

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  1. BuryWindham

    Your ballots

    1. Scott Steiner: kidding Jushin Thunder Liger Terry Funk Ric Flair Tatsumi Fujinami Negro Casas Nick Bockwinkel Stan Hansen Rey Mysterio Jr AJ Styles Eddie Guerrero Jerry Lawler Jun Akiyama Daniel Bryan El Hijo Del Santo Billy Robinson Mitsuharu Misawa Vader Atsushi Onita Kurt Angle Bull Nakano El Dandy Genichiro Tenryu Shinya Hashimoto Perro Aguayo Steve Austin Kenta Kobashi Randy Savage Jumbo Tsuruta El Satanico Riki Choshu Toshiaki Kawada Buddy Rose Ricky Steamboat Ricky Morton Aja Kong Harley Race Dustin Rhodes CM Punk Hulk Hogan Giant Baba Bobby Eaton Hiroshi Hase Akita Hokuto John Cena Carlos Colon Owen Hart Mick Foley Hiroshi Tanahashi Keiji Mutoh Ray Stevens Atlantis Barry Windham Manami Toyota Antonio Inoki Rick Rude The Destroyer Dick Murdoch William Regalia Arn Anderson Akira Taue Dick Togo Johnny Saint Hayabusa Mark Rocco Dynamite Kansai Koji Kanemoto Greg Valentine Bret Hart Pat Patterson Karl Gotch Chigusa Nagayo 2 Cold Scorpio Rick Martel Jim Breaks Nobuhiko Takada Kerry Von Erich Ted Dibiase Buddy Rogers Steve Williams Sean Waltman El Samurai La Park Jeff Jarrett Bill Dundee Kensuke Sasaki Bob Backlund Bruiser Brody Dynamite Kid Jerry Blackwell Tracy Smothers Brian Pillman Sting Eddie Gilbert Sgt. Slaughter Lex Luger Bam Bam BIgelow Matt Borne Samoa Joe Volk Han Shawn MIchaels
  2. I'll propose a different argument to a list like this. Instead of American Imperalism which I feel is more than unfair for this argument. What about the effect media has had on wrestling greatness perception? Have people like Dave Meltzer influenced and molded are preferences? I think we can all say there has been a time where we heard about a match from Melty and sought it out and were compelled in some way shape or form to either continue finding more matches of the same type or branch out. Also find it fascinating that some manifestations have spawned from irrational thought like chanting "you can't wrestle" at WWE wrestlers who in fact can wrestle but cheering for japanese/ indie talents that are arguably less impressive. Perhaps we call this Meltzer Imperialism?
  3. I missed the window to nominate him but definitely Tojo Yamamoto the guy was a pure heat magnet one of the best heels of the era.
  4. "Americanized" Wrestling is a ridiculous term for the point that is trying to made. Japanese Wrestling as we know it was spawned out of American wrestling, the first known Japanese pro wrestler Sorakichi Matsuda started in the US in the 1800's and brought 20 American and wrestlers with him to Japan and it wasn't that successful. Then move to Rikidozan who's career and rise in popularity was beating up the Americans. Japanese wrestling however has its distinct narrative of fighting spirit, strikes, less theatrics, promos, etc etc. That style has directely influenced American wrestling as we see it today. The two have shaped each other. Lucha has also has a direct influence on American and Japanese wrestling. So it's kind of a moot point. If I had to make an argument why Lucha was underrated in the GWE poll it wouldn't be about "Americanization" it would be that it's simply an acquired taste. The bumping, psychology, match styles are all different to wrestling. There seems to be a narrative and I've even heard Konnan say this that Lucha lacks psychology, (I disagree) I would say moves and matches are performed more with grace and elasticity. I would also add that I think some of the rules can take people out wanting to watch it. What is curious to me is why so little of Japanese and American wrestlers have competed in Mexico and vise versa. That's actually played a pretty decent part in my Top 10.
  5. Andre and MS-1 were glaring omissions for me. I look at a both and obviously has great matches and in Andre's case a rare overall worker, that was special. I could probably justify both but it honestly boils down to time. I dropped the ball on spending time revisiting these guys.
  6. I think I'll have a very high vote on a lot of people. I really emphasized career length and types of opponents worked and match quality against them. One name I'll pick out it is Tatsumi Fujinami at 4. He's easily the second best wrestler from the 80's behind Flair and one of those very rare guys who had great matches in the US, Mexico, Japan, Europe. He was still pretty good in a sense like Flair was good in the 90's. Not his peak, mostly solid, a few classics. Also an excellent tag worker. Pretty much my rationale for ranking him so high.
  7. Like I said I have rethought my position. Interestingly enough I have Flair and Fujinami ahead of Lawler, even Hansen, solely on the premise that i feel all 3 were great workers and phenomenal wrestlers. Lawler was never really a guy that would blow you away with athletic or technical matches. It's was building a story of hate, revenge, sympathy and working the match to the story and keeping the emotional investment. A lot of the time that was with brawls.
  8. That was me and this is a better forum to discuss this in, since I have more than one hundred whatever characters. Variety was an easy way for me to say that Kurt has been able to adjust his style and have more diverse matches with opponents of different with skills sets and match types than Lawler. For the record I would easily put Lawler as the best worker of the 80's and top 10 all time. He was able to sell a match and the psychology of a match better than anyone at the time. Everyone loved the Loser Leaves Town Match because of the story behind it and everyone want to see Lawler kick the crap out Dundee. Not because it was going to be a wrestling masterpiece. That was always kind of the sum of Lawler a guy that could sell a brawl and have a great brawl, regardless he's still a top 15 lock for me. In the context of actual wrestling, I think Angle does that better that most. I'm aware of the suplex redundancy especially in late TNA when he was broken down but there are more than a handful of guys that we could make this argument for and I'm assuming most will be rated very highly in people's top 25. Flair for example... Samoa Joe Lockdown: I personally dig that it's more grounded MMA grappling style match and a pretty decent one at that, I'm comfortable going **** 1/4 on that match. Shane McMahon KOR: That match holds up for me it's a complete and total shit show, no different that what would you see out of concession stand brawl. **** 1/2 Jarrett and Angle vs Electroshock/LA Park: a really fun overbooked luchabrawl that got over well with the crowd although I do think that had more to do with Jarrett but Angle's in ring stuff seemed to click with the AAA fans. For the record i have rethought my list and have angle behind Lawler. I think Lawler deserves too much credit and holds a special place in my heart for his ability to sell the match so brilliantly.
  9. He's a very underrated pick that will make the back end of my top 100. What I really appreciate about his work is that he can he's able to work his matches to the tone of some really bad characters. Did any one ever enjoy the other incarnations of Doink? If it wasn't for the stiff move set/really good technical style and sound cowardly selling no way that character would ever get it over. (it didn't after him IMO) He hsdad a really good match against Mr. Perfect if you're interested in checking out something other than the Bret Hart match. Big Josh was a fun brawler who had that wacky log rolling gimmick that got some okay reactions. He was a real solid lower midcard act, that had some pretty fun matches. The you have the maniac stuff in the territories which was one of the stiffest wrestlers at the time, he looked like he was shooting half the time. He's worth a pick based on his diversity, pretty decent tenure, ability to work/get awful characters over in the ring.
  10. BuryWindham

    AJ Styles

    I have no problem banging the GWE drum for AJ Styles. His run from 02-08 is some of the best work I've seen in the past 15 years and 2014 and 2015 are consensus worker of the year level stuff. Focusing on his early run, I'd say it's a race between him and Daniel Bryan for consistently great matches.
  11. Art's biggest knock was being an unfinished story. Similar to Gino. The worlds collide match and his mask vs mask match against Blue Panther are probably his most regarded matches. I'd like to see more of his PNW matches. It would be awesome if someone like Matt Farmer could make that available.
  12. Art's best quality was the ability to draw massive amounts of heat. I wish more of his work from Mexico was up but the guy seriously could get people to really hate him. In ring, he was just as good if not better than Eddie during their tag run, I'm sure most people have seen the Worlds Collide match. He's he star there in my opinion. Great seller and bumper as well. I want to share more of his work and let it speak for itself.
  13. I never caught his AWA stuff but I think adds to my initial point of him being one of those great tag specialists that's could go as a singles talent as well. My thoughts his single work also would have to include the dark patriot feud from GWF as pretty entertaining. While skimming through some of the short matches on YouTube and this could be due to years of watching completely awful punches being thrown, Del throws some real mean looking punches. They stood out. For WCW I loved his team with Marcus Bagwell don't care what anyone says The Patriots were major fun. This is the type of work I appreciate.
  14. The Patriot (Del Wilkes) version is a curious talent. Does he belong in the same breathe as Misawa, Funk, Lawler, Tenryu? Probably not but is he one of the greatest workers ever? Perhaps to an extent. The value of Wilkes as a great worker is similar to that of Tommy Rogers an excellent tag team specialist that when given shots at singles matches put on fun, never boring and solid ring work. For Patriots best work his work with Kobashi in the 96 tag league, was his best stuff. For tag matches his match where he and Kobashi faced Akiyama and Misawa is probably his best match and a high recommendation for me. I'd be willing to call it the second best match of a memorable tournament full of great matches. For singles work, the Bret Hart feud was something of a bright spot in a time where the WWE had next to none. He was over, the capture the flag match was also great fun. I'll nominate him based purely of being on the all time great tag specialists, his memorable gimmick which I personaly feel was always over and being an all around good singles talent.
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